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 Post subject: Re: GoMa Testing Shard
PostPosted: 22 Dec 2008, 11:44 am 
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Nalates wrote:
“The Guilds are here to serve the community.” I still think this is a misstatement of the guilds purposes and creates some of the problem with how the guilds are perceived. I have certainly had it tossed in my face when I’ve had to tell someone, ‘you can have it your way, but you have to do the work’.


I agree with you completely on that. The guilds are pretty much what's keeping URU alive, and yet people always want more. It's sad really.


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 Post subject: Re: GoMa Testing Shard
PostPosted: 22 Dec 2008, 02:53 pm 
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Quote:
“The Guilds are here to serve the community.” I still think this is a misstatement of the guilds purposes and creates some of the problem with how the guilds are perceived. I have certainly had it tossed in my face when I’ve had to tell someone, ‘you can have it your way, but you have to do the work’.


If you take a look at the GoMa's mission statement on our home page, it says:

Quote:
To Protect and Serve the Community, throughout the Cavern and Ages


We (the founders of the GoMa) spent literally a couple of months coming up with that statement.
We wanted to have a mission statement that could discribe things both in a IC way and a OOC way at the same time. We wanted to make sure that people's preconcieved ideas about the Maintainers were wrong: We're not here to rule, we're here to help.
While our Guild might be a large group of like minded people, we are also there to fill niches that the community needs or wants. That, as far as I can see is "serving" the community.

Does "serving" the community mean we jump up when they snap their fingers? Absolutely not.
Law enforcement across the US has has a like minded motto: "To protect and serve." yet I seriously doubt that when your average person snaps their fingers, will you find the police jumping up to do their bidding.
The police are filling a much needed niche in society, which serves the peoples interest.

Same goes for the Guild Of Maintainers: we don't "serve" people like a waiter, butler, house servant, etc, etc. We "serve" the community by helping fill a needed niche that is there. We are serving the "society" of the Uru / Myst Fandom and Universe.

Just as each guild does.

For those people that think that the Guilds are there as their own personal servants, they are sadly mistaken, and will find out as much.

I really haven't run into people thinking this way though. I see people and groups of people HOPING that the guilds will be able to do things for them, but I've yet to see demanding going on by people not in any guild.

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 Post subject: Re: GoMa Testing Shard
PostPosted: 22 Dec 2008, 09:55 pm 
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Actually Andy, that person that was talking about 3 servers was wrong. Try 5: Auth, Game, Lobby, Tracking, Vault.

Those all can be run on separate computers IIRC. This info can be seen if you open up the UU server config file.

The Data server isn't really part of the shard. You need to point to this server manually with a client-side conf. I don't think Cyan ever provided such a server. The hackers and or shard admins figured out how to put up their own though.

The Lobby server is used for stuff after initial login (not sure about the other uses of it though).
Tracking server is to coordinate all the other servers doing their own things (maybe on other computers).
Vault is to store info about the Player, Player's ages, Hoods, KI-images, etc.

The Game server keeps all the currently being visited ages in memory including the short-term states (avatar positions, etc.). This is what the LingerTime var in .age files are about: how long the age should stay running on the Game server, after the last player has left, before it should pull the plug.

I have no idea about the MOUL server structure though... probably somewhat similar if it claims to be very scalable (maybe you can share the load of the same component between servers or something).

:)


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 Post subject: Re: GoMa Testing Shard
PostPosted: 23 Dec 2008, 03:57 am 
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Braggi wrote:
1. Regarding a test server:
a) We need it.
b) It will have to paid for, no doubt.
c) I'm willing to help, by paying within my means.
d) Regarding organization - what about politely quizzing the community of Freespace 2 (or one of the other legacy gaming communities running their own servers) to see if they have ever had to tackle the "who manages the money" issue? (Don't know if that is useful, but it might not hurt to check. I'd even volunteer as go-between, if it would help - I'm fairly comfortable with modding communities after my experience with revitalizing a decent-sized mod for Oblivion.)

Braggi, if you could check d) out, it would be useful information to know.

Grogyan mentioned payment issues in the discussions on the OpenUru.org site so the info would feed in there as well.

With regard to hardware, various people are beginning to list what they have available. Some seem very willing to set up a small-scale test shard, if that is possible.

All this might change, of course, when more details emerge.

But this is a good wide-ranging discussion of some of the issues we're likely to face. Thank you all!

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 Post subject: Re: GoMa Testing Shard
PostPosted: 23 Dec 2008, 05:56 am 
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andylegate wrote:

If you take a look at the GoMa's mission statement on our home page, it says:

Quote:
To Protect and Serve the Community, throughout the Cavern and Ages




Well put, Andy. If some of the critics of the Guild system would slow down and investigate what they are criticizing, they might change their tune!

IMHO we will probably see two general divisions among the population - those who want to preserve the legacy that Cyan has / is planning to entrust to us, and those who just want a free ride. The problem with "free stuff" is that you generally get what you pay for!

As has been pointed out, somehow, some way, we are gong to have to "pay" for the D'ni world. Whether that takes the form of contributions of time, hardware, bandwidth, or plain old money is yet to be seen - it will doubtless be a combination of all - but the idea I see floating around that equates Open Source with "free" needs to be dispelled. It's going to take a lot of work to make a success out of this, and the Guilds are in the best position to make it happen.

Walt


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 Post subject: Re: GoMa Testing Shard
PostPosted: 23 Dec 2008, 06:19 am 
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I dunno, I don't think a GoMa testing shard really needs some server in a server-bank connected to the backbone.

I think a small server sitting in someone's bed-room on a residential connection would be just fine. The same for the GoW testing shard.

The most important things I've learned about testing servers are:

a) Have direct access to them or have a friend have direct access. When you need a reboot because you fried the vault do you really want to have to be put on trial in front of the "Grand Server Board" and or pay $20 to if a reboot is needed?

b) Not house hundreds of people and not "settle down". Testing shards are meant for testing. All player info could be wiped in a few seconds without any notice... who wants to go on and hangout and party all at once.

I'd have to say having a distributed pile of shards for testing would probably be the safest and most reliable option. They could all use the same data-set or something so they're like a "neighborhood" of GoMa testing servers.

Stand by for large explosion at CampBravo on TestingServer06. 8-)
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 Post subject: Re: GoMa Testing Shard
PostPosted: 23 Dec 2008, 08:27 am 
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Dot wrote:
Braggi wrote:
1. Regarding a test server:
a) We need it.
b) It will have to paid for, no doubt.
c) I'm willing to help, by paying within my means.
d) Regarding organization - what about politely quizzing the community of Freespace 2 (or one of the other legacy gaming communities running their own servers) to see if they have ever had to tackle the "who manages the money" issue? (Don't know if that is useful, but it might not hurt to check. I'd even volunteer as go-between, if it would help - I'm fairly comfortable with modding communities after my experience with revitalizing a decent-sized mod for Oblivion.)

Braggi, if you could check d) out, it would be useful information to know.

Grogyan mentioned payment issues in the discussions on the OpenUru.org site so the info would feed in there as well.


I have the time and the desire, so I am on it. My wife is away for the holidays, giving me some "bachelor time" to devote to this.

:D

Hopefully I can track down some of the server admins and get replies in the next week or two. How and where on the board should I post any resulting information?


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 Post subject: Re: GoMa Testing Shard
PostPosted: 23 Dec 2008, 08:28 am 
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Lontahv wrote:
I'd have to say having a distributed pile of shards for testing would probably be the safest and most reliable option. They could all use the same data-set or something so they're like a "neighborhood" of GoMa testing servers.

Stand by for large explosion at CampBravo on TestingServer06. 8-)
Customer Care: BOOM! :lol:


That's a really good idea IMO. People who've got laptop's or computers they don't use too much could just make a shard and leave it on, and if we had a dozen or so of that kind of server, it would be more than enough to meet our needs.


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 Post subject: Re: GoMa Testing Shard
PostPosted: 23 Dec 2008, 09:10 am 
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Braggi wrote:
Hopefully I can track down some of the server admins and get replies in the next week or two. How and where on the board should I post any resulting information?

Thanks, Braggi.

As to where to post it, that is a good question. Perhaps we need to think about how this forum is organised in the light of recent developments. But that should probably wait until Cyan releases more details.

In the meantime, what about just posting the info in the General Discussion area?

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 Post subject: Re: GoMa Testing Shard
PostPosted: 23 Dec 2008, 10:22 am 
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Why not just post it in this thread? It's pertinent to the GoMa testing shard so it makes sense to just say it here.


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