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PostPosted: 13 Sep 2010, 04:05 am 
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Joined: 21 Feb 2010, 12:50 pm
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Brilliant! Thanks again.


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PostPosted: 14 Sep 2010, 10:30 am 
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Joined: 18 Feb 2008, 01:46 pm
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Marcus, I applaud your enthusiasm and I wish you well in what I think you are trying to do. If I'm reading you right I think you are trying to wake up a group you see as letting itself slide. Correct me if I'm wrong or have been too crass in saying it that way. Something to keep in mind is that if and when the day ever comes that Uru goes open source and Cyan is looking for help keeping order in the place, there are some key people in this "dormant" GOMA who will very probably spring back to life. But it is not likely that they will do that until Cyan opens the gates.

Be that as it may, what I really wanted to write about is the persistence of the GoMa official stance on hacks. My take on that, and it is merely opinion, is that a large part of the motivation for taking the position they did was so that the GoMa could present itself to Cyan with clean noses when Cyan needed to find someone to help moderate the issuance of FCALs (if such a thing was ever going to happen). As individuals GoMa members have always been advised to make up their own minds on how they wish to play the games and with what tools. Publicly and collectively, however, the GoMa leadership would not adopt any position that would jeopardize GoMa's good standing in the sight of Cyan. So you get distinctions like the difference between Drizzle and the Ofline KI (I never remember what that thing is called). To some extent there was a willingness, and I would say a desire, to be used by Cyan as gatekeepers in the matter of selecting Ages for official sanction. I'm not sure that was about ambition so much as a desire to help make the game clean and useful, but I do know that the GoMa caught heat for the appearance of all that from people outside GoMa.

I don't know if or how much that has changed, but it is something to keep in mind as you consider how the GoMa is to function in whatever future you are envisioning.


-Stejovis


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PostPosted: 14 Sep 2010, 09:08 pm 
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From a purely GoW standpoint, I think GoMa should be a place where _some_ amount of hacking can be discussed. It makes inter-guild relations hard when there is a guild that has the same amount of strictness as Cyan's forum. In the past, Cyan hasn't seemed opposed to visiting the GoW (Danear even posted over there). I don't think Cyan expects the guilds to mirror their own system, but only to be somewhat compatible in case they want to send some project our way or whatnot.


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PostPosted: 15 Sep 2010, 06:19 am 
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Perception… that is an interesting consideration for making decisions. I think of it as trying to adjust ones behavior to control what another thinks. It is like being fair. Both are so subjective there is little chance of succeeding at achieving a goal by such attempts. People think what they think about and perceive the same events differently.

Whether one becomes a member of GoMa by personal adoption or a formalized process of application and acceptance by Guild Masters, or whoever, creates a significant change in the guild culture. I see neither path is right or wrong but I do see the effort required as very different. When one likes to organize and ‘run’ (I need a better word) things, spending that effort may be acceptable. For others that prefer to spend time age writing or playing in Uru the organizational overhead is simply a burden that detracts from their hobby time.

I consider elections a royal PITA that burns up time. People have the idea they are fair. Generally they mean the minority decide for the majority, especially in this fan community.

Tweek wrote:
I think the GoMA could do with being more lax on "Cyan's wishes" if they wish to stay relevant as more people are now working ahead without Cyan, and that is where all the work load (which the GoMA could be working with) of fan content.

Stopping and waiting (and waiting and waiting) for Cyan, will result in being left behind.

I agree and disagree. Without license to use Cyan’s content, any shard using the content is relegated to the underground. However, it is the push by fans into extra-EULA territories that has moved Cyan in the past. Perceiving how EULA violations work and what moves Cyan divides much of the community. In the sense of what worked; Tweek is right. Waiting is counterproductive.

For me it is not a “To Hack and talk or not” decision. It is what one does after the hack and discussion. It boils down to simply a statement on one’s style of how they decide to respect, or not, others rights. That choice is controversial for many. I think there is often a connection between how one treats others rights and how they treat others. Deciding where one stands sets a tone.

Using the GoW as a role model for leadership and talking about ‘perception’ in the same thread seems oxymoron-ish. For many that may just highlight a problem to be avoided. That GoW uses a more laze fair style is not so much an issue with laze fair as it is a with leadership style. The world continually argues about whether a strong central government is better than individual liberty and a weak central government. The later tends to reduce a poor leaders authority/influence and allow more popular leaders to emerge. And in either, it is the leaders more than the style of government that sets the tone and until enough people are unhappy enough, nothing changes. The problem in a fan community is unhappy fans can leave. Whether GoMa remains laze fair or becomes more organized… it would be nice if the all the members decided. But, I suspect everyone that is interested is already reading the thread.

So, How would you vote?
Keep open style membership in GoMa?
Or… move to an application and acceptance style membership?

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