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 Post subject: Beyond the boundaries
PostPosted: 10 Jan 2011, 08:26 am 
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The Projects area here has always been a place that has worked across and beyond boundaries -- across boundaries between guilds and groups, and even 3D worlds.

There are strong modern-IC reasons for this -- and those working in this area have achieved a great deal over the months and years, work that has been recognised by those outside the narrower Uru community.

Over time groups evolve and perceived needs change. So, for example, there has been the push by individuals such as Marcus towards activities seen by many as GoMa's 'true' purpose, i.e. strictly Uru fan age inspection. There's no conflict here, and I wish them the best of luck!

However, I suspect that there are still those who enjoy working beyond the boundaries, and who may wish to have a forum for their work in story telling, age and world building, IC and OOC planning discussions, etc. independent of historical baggage from guilds, groups, expectations, etc.

So, while the GoMa forum was down, ametist and I have been discussing this behind the scenes, seeing if there was any interest beyond ourselves in such a place. It would be a new forum with a new/old focus -- supporting projects that span boundaries and narrow group definitions.

I'd be interested in hearing what others think. Is this something you might like to get involved with? Would you find it useful?


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PostPosted: 10 Jan 2011, 11:24 am 
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Wasn’t Alternate Worlds supposed to serve that purpose? It seems to have sprung from a similar discussion at least.


Last edited by Christian Walther on 10 Jan 2011, 02:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: 10 Jan 2011, 11:53 am 
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Yes, Christian, but the loss of all the posts and work has been rather demoralising and demotivating. Given this and other events suggests a rethink is in order.

First, Alternate Worlds was very much an Andy-driven vision. Andy is focusing on GoMa now, and releasing his tutorials on the UAM wiki.

The suggested forum/what-have-you would have a slightly different emphasis to what was originally planned for Alternate Worlds. For one thing, there would probably be less focus on technical aspects since that is covered adequately elsewhere.


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PostPosted: 10 Jan 2011, 01:49 pm 
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Alternate Avie: Andy Legate ....... uhm.......
I came up with the idea of Alternate Worlds for several reasons:

1) At the time, Marcus was pushing to revive the GoMa in areas that it had been almost dormant in (IE Fan Age Inspections). He made a proposal to have changes made around here, and that proposal passed.
Exactly what changes were going to happen, we are not clear on, as phase one of his plan was to increase membership to the GoMa. That unfortunately did not go as planed for him. Now he is still here checking in once in a while, but he does have Real Life things to take care of, and he's waiting to see if there ends up being anymore life from Cyan.

2) During the time that Marcus was trying to revive interest in the GoMa, a few people in the community had displayed their, "displeasure" (sorry, I can't think of a better word at this time), of people here at the GoMa being involved in other places besides the MOUL community (read that as things ONLY dealing directly with Uru:CC, POTS, UU, and MOUL:a game engines and servers platforms such as Alcugs based Shards). They felt that hold discussions and planing projects here that involved other platforms (such as Second Life, There, Osgrid, etc), detracted from the GoMa and was "taking people away from Uru and MOUL.". That while they didn't care what someone here at the GoMa did on other platforms, but that no one should be concentrating their energies here at the GoMa on those other platforms.
As we all know, both Uru and MOUL does not need any help in loosing people, as with out Cyan's involvement, your casual player will soon grow bored after running though all of Cyan's Ages with no new content from them. While there are plenty of new Fan made content, not all casual new players new to MOUL even know about them, nor about Shards, etc.
They felt that the answer to that lay in "closing the borders" so to speak, and keeping places like the GoMa isolated away from other gaming platforms.
Marcus and I explained that many of the things that the GoMa had been doing was not trying to drive people away from Uru and MOUL, but to help make people on those other platforms AWARE for Uru and MOUL, so that they might come over and also play and be part of the Uru community.
However, not knowing what intentions Marcus had, I decided that it might be possible that he ask for the discussions like Dot's no longer take place on the GoMa, so a alternate place would be needed.

3) That one of the changes also could be that my tutorials I was hosting on here also be moved away, in order to "purify" the GoMa, so I knew I might need a host for that.

So those were my reasons in creating Alternate Worlds. Unfortunately, as Dot said, the server crash literally obliterated the entire forum. It was reset back to where I had not even moved any tutorials to it yet. All discussions that had gone on there were gone.

The fate of Alternate Worlds is in limbo right now, as I try and finish cleaning up the GoMa forum of very old discussions, finish moving and repairing my tutorials, and trying to build a new and updated version of the Fan Age Inspections area.

However, I have NO plans on asking anyone here that uses this forum to discuss cross platform projects, to stop doing so, or to move their conversations else where.

The Guild Of Maintainers motto and creed has always been, and will be: To protect and serve the community.

If one of the ways the Maintainers can help serve that community is by playing host to people who are part of the Uru community be involved in projects that involve other communities, then we will. Especially if it helps bring people from those other communities over to the Uru Community and be part of it too, and to help those that are already part of the Uru community retain their desire to stay and be part of the Uru community.

The GoMa will not bow down to a few individuals who think they speak for all, when in fact, they speak only for themselves....just as everyone in the community does. Not one person speaks for everyone out there.

So again, anyone that wishes to stay and discuss their projects here are more than welcome to. Yes, there will always be those out in the Uru community that will try to chase you off, by barking loudly and trying to convience you that their way of thinking is the ONLY way, when nothing could be further from the truth. There is no ONE way. There is EVERY way. Because Uru is not about one thing, nor one way to go. It's about people who have had their hearts touched and wish to keep that part that was touched.

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PostPosted: 10 Jan 2011, 02:43 pm 
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Fair enough. Just one thing:
Dot wrote:
the loss of all the posts and work has been rather demoralising and demotivating

andylegate wrote:
Unfortunately, as Dot said, the server crash literally obliterated the entire forum. It was reset back to where I had not even moved any tutorials to it yet. All discussions that had gone on there were gone.

While it would certainly take some work to return it into its original form, the content is not lost. (I don’t mean to harp on about this but it seems I haven’t gotten the point across? I have a complete archive of Alternate Worlds from 2010-10-12 on here, in the form of a database containing HTML text, author, date, subforum name and post title for every post, and will happily share it.)


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PostPosted: 10 Jan 2011, 02:49 pm 
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Thanks, Andy.

andylegate wrote:
The Guild Of Maintainers motto and creed has always been, and will be: To protect and serve the community.

And here you have the basic motivation behind all the projects here.

It might be that discussions continue here... It would be great if they could do.

It might be that people feel that the projects have outgrown their origin, and that they need to move on... That would be fine as well.

That's the point of raising this in the first place.


Christian... Thanks for making that point once more. The key discussions for me were the private ones for Shell 415 here, which ARE lost.

The other discussions were more to do with Andy's building blog, I think. Perhaps once the dust has settled over this move, it will be possible to work on restoring them.


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PostPosted: 10 Jan 2011, 03:14 pm 
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Oh, I'm sorry, Christian! I didn't mean to make you think I didn't know what you meant, or was ignoring your offer.

I just haven't sat down and thought about Alternate Worlds is all at this point. When you explained about what you had, I knew that it wasn't all lost then.
However I need to take care of the GoMa forum first. As it turns out, the server space I purchased is more than enough for me to setup AW on it too.

I just need a few days now that things have moved to get things in order is all.

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PostPosted: 10 Jan 2011, 08:00 pm 
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I am never a fan of creating new forums... we have forums that are not used now. I prefer to try and support existing forums and wikis.

OpenUru.org is quite. Most other forums are quite. Several went quite this summer and have almost no new posts since. UO has very little Myst related stuff posted.

It is hard to tell where those playing in other worlds are hanging out. So much of the Uru-SL community communicate by direct IM and the Refugees' group we don't see them in the forum. Uruites are a small percent of games like Wow, GW, etc. and can be hard to find. But, in the Uru community they have often been yelled at and over time gotten tired of it and seldom come around. So, it is hard to find who is where and have sections on their platform that interests them. I pushed the SL section of GoMa in SL but it is not something the SL Uruites need. So, it is seldom used unless I do something with it.

The quality of SL worlds is increasing and will see lots of changes this year. So, we have more Uruites playing with building in SL/OpenSim. But, they really don't use the Myst forums that much. So, I'm not sure another forum or meeting place is needed.

Losing Alt-Worlds did not kill it, or at least I don't think so. I don't know the visitor stats, but there were very few posting before the crash.

But, we will only know if we... well you... try.

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PostPosted: 12 Jan 2011, 11:31 am 
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Quote:
Because Uru is not about one thing, nor one way to go. It's about people who have had their hearts touched and wish to keep that part that was touched.


This is so much how I feel and all I wish is to do just that. Once upon a time I could do that here, I had so much fun with the inspections and all good people here. Then, slowly, I began to dabble with building, (thanks to andy who's enthusiastic way always have encouraged me, still is!) and found that building ages 'took over' inspectingthem. I 'grew out of the maintainer-suit'.

I don't consider myself a real 'writer' and I'm still dependant of others who are more scilled in the art and willing to share knowledge. There is that other forum, GoW, where I could have found a new home. I didn't, and that can be me, but I need more than I can get there.
So the last year I have had a couple(four in fact ;) ) of projects going on outside the guild-forums, using mails and dropbox for sharing. Now I have come to the conclusion that I need a one place for this. Another, alternate 'home', where all this discussion about backstories, events in-game, IC and OOC could take place. Where the restoration of 'the lost pages', or the 'suddenly recovered books' from all over can be discussed. This feeling I share with a couple of other 'builders', and with Dot, which we discovered during discussions about Shell 415.

So like a teenager (being 50+ 8-) ) I'm now going to move to my first 'own' home. I am not going to stay there all the time of course, I will still need all my friends and visit them in their 'homes', listening and taking part in their 'lives', being uru-related or not.


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PostPosted: 15 Jan 2011, 10:50 am 
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That is a lovely post, ametist, and describes to a tee the idea behind the forum.

Of course, it won't be for everyone, but for those who are looking for such things they will be welcome.


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